Jesus Christ! Superstar! Longest Post Ever!

I have recently friended 2 people I should have friended a long time ago, seeing as how they are both lj and now rl friends of sk8eeyore: hermionesviolin and wisdomeagle. So, hi to you both! I recently talked to hermionesviolin on Sarah's IM, and told her that I would wade neck-deep into her long-closed Jesus Christ Superstar debate at some point. So, what better time than when I'm still gainfully unemployed, just before moving to Hartford?

First of all, I was kind of amazed how, in the old debate between hermionesviolin and her friend, lilithchilde, nothing was mentioned of the anti-war protest theme. In that context, I think the movie makes a lot more sense as a cohesive whole. It seems to me that the point of this movie was to explore the way Jesus was viewed as a phenomenon of his time and to show how even his closest followers didn't really "get it," and the modern elements -- the idea of it being a reinactment in the first place, the tanks, the planes -- add to the effect by showing us that we still don't get it. I'm not entirely sure that those involved in the making of the movie were traditional believers either, and perhaps they were just exploring as well, as lilithchilde suggests. I do believe, though, that Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice and others involved have a lot of respect for Jesus and probably believe in his message of nonviolence during a time of war. (Actually, Webber had little to do with the movie adaptation's nuances, so I can't speak for him). But to me, looking at this movie in the context of a war protest helps me read more deeply into what it might be trying to accomplish. Also, as a current Christian who continually ponders this stuff, I found enough in the movie to support a traditional Christian theological perspective, although I can certainly understand how and why Christians may protest, and I agree with Elizabeth that there were times when Jesus was too human for my comfort.


I'll go through Elizabeth's comments piece by piece now and add in some extra scenes from the movie that warrant some attention as I see fit.

Kids getting off a bus? Um, i’m confused. Okay, whatever.

lilithchilde didn't mention when she said that this was a reinactment that it helps to make the whole message about Jesus' followers "not getting it" hit home with us. 2 millenia later, we are trying to recapture the life of Jesus in order to understand it, but clearly, we don't fully understand it. This message comes around full-circle when everyone gets back on the bus at the end except for Jesus. To me, this implies that clearly, something did happen out there (and I think it was the literal crucifixion of Christ), but at the end of his life, his followers just went away, confused, without him. And at the very end, the empty cross is left behind. (More on that later)...

"I've been your right hand man all along."
I agree that he's partly just rationalizing here, but then again, he is one of only 12 whom Jesus has chosen, and in the context of this movie, he is smarter than the other eleven. At least he understands that what they are doing is important and starting to get very scary. Perhaps he and Jesus have shared some deep conversations in the past, and while Jesus might not consider him his right-hand man, maybe Judas really does think of himself that way. It may be arrogant, but in the context of this film, he doesn't seem to have much competition.

More Judas lyrics:
"All the good you've done
Will soon get swept away
You've begun to matter more
Than the things you say"

Judas is genuinely concerned here that Jesus' message will be lost among the crowds and become meaningless. The people have found an influential leader who speaks with authority and can perform miracles, and instead of listening to him and trying to understand him, they're hyping him up and beginning to believe that he is the Messiah they've been praying for. He is, but not in the way they understand it... they want a warrior, like David, to liberate them from Roman rule. Judas knows that Jesus isn't going to go riding into Jerusalem like a proud warrior and liberate it; he knows the people are following him blindly without understanding. Judas, of course, doesn't fully understand either, but at least he doesn't underestimate Jesus. He can see that Jesus' actions will have hard consequences. He really is afraid for his race and he can see things getting out of hand.

In "What's the Buzz?" the disciples are clearly clueless and ready to ride into Jerusalem in all their glory, thus proving Judas' point.

Judas has issues with Mary... because she’s a prostitute? Oh, because he wants Jesus. ... And the hand clasp (with the hand traveling down the arm first) and the lock gaze?

First, I take Judas at his word that he has issues with Mary because she "doesn't fit in well with what [Jesus] teache[s] and say[s]." Granted, Judas is looking at her as a prostitute and not a sinner who, like all others, needs forgiveness, nor as a woman in the process of redemption. He is missing the point. But I think he is genuinely scared that Jesus is going to piss off all the wrong people. Second, slashy impliplications aside, the hand clasp is one of my favorite moments in the movie. Judas' face... he looks transformed in that moment. He probably doesn't know what's going to happen, but he knows now that Jesus knows that he's going to die before the rest of the disciples grasp the idea. He doesn't have to convince Jesus that this is getting out of hand; Jesus understands the consequences too, and is heading straight for them. Judas is amazed and bewildered and in love, I think, though I don't think the makers of the film meant to imply sexual connotations. I think, in that moment, he realizes that something is about to happen and it's more than even he originally imagined, but he still can't understand what it is.

I won't say any more about the anointing at Bethany; it has already been quite well-covered.

Wow, the conversation the 2 Pharisees have ("And Then We Are Decided/This Jesus Must Die") is actually in the Bible. (John 11:45-53) I never remembered reading that. I just knew that Jesus was usurping the authority of the Pharisees and they were upset and wanted him out of the picture. Who knew that stuff like "For the sake of the nation, this Jesus must die" parallels "You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish" (John 11:49)? [Incidentally, the whole “we need to get Jesus away from the crowds, so we can arrest him without interference” gets i think one line in the movie, but it’s mentioned repeatedly in the various versions of the story in the Bible.]

In response to this, I will post a bit of conversation between me and sk8eeyore from earlier today. I found this part of the Bible fascinating.

Genesis3xx: Elizabeth referenced this but didn't say much about it otherwise, and when I looked, it up, I was just like, woah.
Genesis3xx: John 11:49 - 53
Genesis3xx: "But one of {the Pharisees}, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all; you do not understand that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish." (That part Elizabeth refers to... but then the rest...)
Genesis3xx: "He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad."
Genesis3xx: I mean, it looks there like Caiaphas understood God's plan certainly a lot more than Jesus' other disciples... and that he was just trying to make sure everything was fulfilled according to the scriptures and the prophets...
Genesis3xx: It's interesting to me because I think it makes him actually look *good,* when Jesus spent so much of his time condemning the Pharisees. It also seems much more respectful of the Jewish culture than other parts of the NT...
Genesis3xx: I mean, it says that he knew this because he was the high priest, seemingly implying that God granted special knowledge to the priests... or something... I just found it intriguing.
LudieGrace: wow. i don't think i had ever noticed that before.
LudieGrace: here's what my NRSV notes say...
LudieGrace: "The high-priesthood was not generally regarded as carrying prophetic powers. John's point is that Caiaphas prophesied unconsciously; like other opponents of Jesus, he spoke more truly than he knew."
Genesis3xx: Yeah, but it says that he prophesied that Jesus should die... "not for the nation only, but to gather into one the children of God..."
Genesis3xx: I mean, it kind of looks like he was using the fear of the priests to be expedient, but that he really knew more of what he was doing than the rest of them did.

Moving on...

Keep them yelling their devotion,
But add a touch of hate at Rome.
You will rise to a greater power.
We will win ourselves a home.
You will get the power and the glory.
Forever and ever and ever

Oh yeah, because clearly, hate meshes so well with what Jesus was all about. I had to laugh at Simon’s foolishness. And ha, you think you can guarantee Jesus power and glory and everlasting fame with your plans. Did you miss the part where he’s God?

First of all, before Jesus died for all, his message of universal love was kind of clouded by condemnations of the priests and Pharisees. "Brood of vipers" comes most readily to mind. But he was not about to solve anything with violence against another person. But, of course, that's what the people wanted and expected. They wanted him to be a warrior and a fighter; that's what they were all geared up for. The fact that he was about to liberate them without violence (well, without being violent himself toward others, at least) ties into the theme of anti-war. I also love Jesus' reply, but Elizabeth leaves out the part where Jesus says, "To conquer death, you only have to die," which to me foreshadows the resurrection, though she believes it was left out of the movie. (I don't, but I'll get to that later).

"Pilate's Dream" is supposed to be his wife's dream. And he's not supposed to be a sympathetic character according to historical accounts. It was fine for the movie, though.

Whee, the temple. ... And whoa, there was a table with a machine gun."
"My temple should be a house of prayer, But you have made it a den of thieves."
Whoa. First (and only) time Jesus claims Godhood in this movie. Really powerful moment.

I agree that this part is powerful. Machine gun in a desecrated temple... can we say "anti-war"? As I re-watched the movie today, I was struck by how the song in the background says:

"Here you live, Jerusalem
Here you breathe Jerusalem
While your temple still survives
You at least are still alive

and yet the temple was destroyed long before Jesus overturned the tables. They had perverted it so drastically. They were dying, spiritually, and they didn't even notice. Clueless, clueless people.

"Healings" bothered me, because while i understand the frustration of Jesus at constantly being in demand ... he’s God; he could heal every human being of each and every infirmity in an instant, with no more than a thought. Well, in my theology anyway. The divinity of Christ is of course a point of contention, and people have argued that his powers were limited when he was confined to a fleshly body. Somehow i don’t think the creators of Jesus Christ Superstar were keen to these theological subtleties, however.

In human form, Jesus wasn't able to heal all at once. While he could heal some, perhaps even more than one-at-a-time, he wasn't all-powerful on Earth. I have often heard of the incarnation as God's act of self-limitation, and I'm bothered by that particular take on it, but it makes sense to me that in order to transcend humanity, God first had to become human. If transcend means "go beyond," then you have to get there, first, before you can go beyond. (Actually, with God all things are possible, and the whole crucifixion probably wasn't the only way God could have saved all. But it was the way God chose, the best way, the way in which we as humans can interact with God and learn how to live and sacrifice and die and be reborn). So the healings to me show that, while Jesus was human, his power was limited. He experienced our frustrations and anger... there is nothing we can feel that God wouldn't empathize with (let alone understand). He healed them all when he died and rose again, though not as literally as they would have liked, just as he did in fact liberate Jerusalem, though they would remain occupied for hundreds more years. In other words, I think this scene demonstrates the necessity of the cross.

Clearly, we needed that love song. ... Yes, i’m annoyed because it’s totally superfluous...

I'll just say that I love that song. *sigh* prrrretty...

[Judas' betrayal scene]Also, Judas is chased by tanks, and then he's at the high priest's place, and then there are airplanes whizzing over him. Wha happa?

Foreshadowing and more anti-war imagery. It's ironic, because Judas goes to the priests to betray Jesus, a turning point just before things get violent, but it's with the intention of preventing more unnecessary violence for the sake of his people. He begs the priests not to tell him that he'll be damned for all time, but he's taking an action that he later regrets and is damning himself. Whether or not God forgives him is a big question left open in the movie, but he clearly does not forgive himself. And after Jesus' death, there is violence anyway. (If there wasn't, we wouldn't have tanks and war planes now). It's the calm before the storm. Something bad is about to happen.

The Last Supper is one of the most moving occurrences, and they don’t even try to do it justice.

Look at all my trials and tribulations
Sinking in a gentle pool of wine.
Don't disturb me now, I can see the answers
Till this evening is this morning life is fine.

Hello, drugged out hippies ;)

Always hoped that I'd be an apostle.
Knew that I could make it if I tried.
Then when we retire, we can write the Gospels,
So they'll all talk about us when we've died.

Touché re: the gospel writers (though i admit i smiled at the biting commentary). No one got into the Jesus game for glory and profit, though, not then. You had to leave possessions and family behind to follow him. Jesus was so opposed to material wealth. You didn’t exactly get a retirement fund. That verse is just full of so much crap.

They're supposed to be "shallow, thick and slow," and while it may be unfair to say this, it is not without some Biblical basis. I mean, they follow Jesus around but they never do get it, really. In this movie, though, the apostles are supposed to be extra-thick, because it's all about how no one really understood Jesus, even during his (first) lifetime. They thought they were hanging with someone who was going to lead them to victory and glory, and instead he asked them to follow him even unto the cross. They weren't anywhere nearly ready for that. Yet I do think the poignancy of the event was captured in Jesus' conversation with Judas, departing from the Bible though it may. I was glad when Judas says, "Cut out the dramatics, you know very well who," (referring to Jesus saying that someone would betray him). It was all part of the plan and it had to happen, afterall, and somehow, Judas knows it, too... though he's not fully aware of what he's doing or what will come of it. Judas runs off to betray Jesus, and stops and cries first, and Jesus goes to hand this man, who's about to get him killed, a coat. Very poignant. Then, after Jesus and Judas yell at each other some more, Judas runs away, and all the sheep follow him. The crowds are following Judas and betraying Jesus. Major turning point.

"Gethsemane (I Only Want to Say)"

Okay, Jesus in the Bible wishes he did not have to drink that bitter cup, but this is the song in which i most strongly feel that the films errs too far toward Jesus-as-man, diminishing Jesus-as-God to the point where i think the writers believed Jesus was a prophet of sorts, was a chosen and willing sacrifice (which, i suppose, is some people’s theology).

I think this song is beautiful, and it shows Jesus' fear and sorrow very well, butI agree that he is disturbingly human here. It shows us his suffering and all that he had to endure, and this again was part of our humanity that I believe he had to embrace in order to transcend and transform it. But the idea of God-incarnate praying to God, let alone yelling at God, claiming to not understand God... the dissonance between the human incarnation and the Heavenly Father is all so overwhelming to me. Like sk8eeyore says, this really is one crazy religion.

Put away your sword

*pouts* I wanted Peter to cut off the centurion’s ear and have “He who lives by the sword, dies the by sword.”

Why are you obsessed with fighting?
Stick to fishing from now on.

I also wanted Peter to cut off the centurion's ear. Oh, well. "Why are you obsessed with fighting?" Anti... I think you know where I'm going with this...

I think it's close to this point that Peter denies Jesus, and while I agree that I wish it had taken place before dawn, I find this scene hilarious. Peter is this giant, bearded, curly-headed guy, and yet he's denying he was with Jesus. As if anyone could possibly mistake him for anyone else!

"You've got the wrong man, Lady.
I don't know him..." ("It was the other giant, curly-haired, fully-bearded, deer-in-the-headlights expression guy!")

When Jesus is pushed down into the hole right after his arrest, he is wearing sandles, not socks, although I think that's probably inaccurate too. He was wearing something on his feet to make him slide down into the hole more easily, and I think it was an editing mistake that they were shown in the first place. The fact that Judas laments how battered he is and the next time we see Jesus, he's unscathed, is another editing mistake.

Judas' hanging himself (after his remix of "I Don't Know How to Love Him") is powerful. He still doesn't understand what he has done in betraying Jesus, but he believes, in this moment, that nothing good can come out of this man's death because he realizes that Jesus was an innocent. He's beyond rationalizing his actions at this point; he's repentant. Is what he has done God's "foul, bloody crime?" Will God forgive him? I'd like to think so, and I love the way the movie explores that question.

Reading the Biblical accounts... while a bit of a neat rhetorical trick, JCS totally undermines what the Bible says Jesus was, by having him keeping doing that “Your words, not mine” bit, but in the Bible he keeps saying “Yes, it is as you say” -- to the Sanhedrin’s question “Are you the Christ, the Son of God?” (Matthew 26:63-64 and Mark 14:61-62 are almost identical, and then there’s Luke 22:70 which is a little different, and then John is heavily different) and to Pilate’s question “Are you the King of the Jews?” (Matthew 27:11 and Mark 15:2 are almost identical, and then there’s Luke 23:3 which is a little different, and then John is heavily different).

"I have no kingdom in the world I'm through. There may be a kingdom for me somewhere. If I only knew." Again, far too doubting a Christ for me.

First of all, Jesus says, "There may be a kingdom for me somewhere. If you only knew," which makes it a little better. Though not much. Elizabeth is right that this scene downplays Jesus' divinity. According to my Aunt Grace (who teaches Bible at Presbyterian College in SC), in Mark, when the high priest asks, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" Jesus not only answers, "I am," but he says it in Hebrew, which is "Yahweh," the name of God (The Great "I AM"), and the utterance of such a word alone would have been blasphemous, let alone the claim to be God. Yeah. But then again, I don't think Jesus would have described himself as "King of the Jews." Those would not have been his words, because the connotations were so different than what he actually was. So when he says, "Your words, not mine," I can understand that. I agree that the portrayal in the movie is far too doubting.

Contrast the movie's lines:
[Pilate] "Then you are a king." [Jesus] "It's you that say I am. I look for truth, and find that I get damned."

with the Bible (John 18:37):
"Pilate said to him, 'So you are a king?' Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into th eworld, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.'

Quite a change! That's one of the reasons Judas betrayed Jesus in the first place, because he was frightened of Jesus' threat to the priestly authority and to the Roman authority. And Jesus was a threat precisely because he spoke with such authority. Although I always liked the trial scene in the movie simply for the sake of the movie, I agree that it downplays Jesus' divinity. Maybe the audience is supposed to wonder, but I think the Jesus in this movie needs to take a stand on what he believes about himself. Why would he search for truth if he is the Truth?

Love the way Pilate washes his hands, too. As I stated before, though, according to history, he was supposed to be a tough ruler who wouldn't have needed much of a reason to condemn Jesus.

I always thought "Could We Start Again, Please?" was one of the prettiest songs in the piece, even though it was added for the movie. Yeah, they're just now realizing that this might get out of hand. They're just now seeing what Judas saw all along. I mean, this will sound flippant, and I don't think Mary was flippant, but as for the rest of the followers who join in that song -- "It's all fun and games 'till someone gets crucified."

Judas' last song. These people only want to know if Jesus really is God or not. Is he what they say he is? Is he more than that? What does he think of himself? Is this taking place as a halucination on the way to Golgatha? If so, how could he possibly know who Muhammad is, since he hadn't been born yet? (Though I love the references to Buddha and Muhammad. "So, JC, what do you think of religious pluralism?" God knows I would love to ask him that myself.) Or is it foreshadowing after Jesus's ascension into heaven? (And if so, how come Judas and the others are still asking all the questions?) But aside from these details, I think it goes back to the message that so many years later, we still don't get what Jesus was all about; we're still searching and wondering. And hey, in the midst of wondering and not getting it, we're still killing! Which is why Judas is associated with those tanks! Which is bad!

AND AGAIN, NO RESURRECTION. THIS IS NO GOOD! THE RESURRECTION IS KEY!

Okay, well at least the kids on the bus makes a nice frame.

Yes, they all get back on the bus, except Jesus. I refer you all back to my first comment. They leave, and Jesus is not with them, and they leave the cross behind, too. The cross is empty at the last scene. And then, at the bottom of the screen, in silouette, is a figure leading the sheep. Jesus, with his followers. To me, this implies resurrection, though many of his time didn't see it and didn't get it and didn't believe it. Some still followed. The sheep that once followed Judas are now following Jesus. Now, this scene doesn't have to be interpreted as the resurrection; clearly, some people believe in Jesus in other ways and seek to follow his example without necessarily believing that he is the risen Lord. And whether or not he was resurrected, some people who do believe in his resurrection fight in his name and do things that he probably wouldn't approve of, like the blind followers in the movie. It is open to all kinds of interpretation. I like to look at it from the hopeful perspective that Jesus was resurrected, and some are earnestly seeking to follow him.

(Now, the original play did not have a resurrection, according to Andrew Lloyd Webber. The play I saw, however, did.)

Other minor notes: I love this musical. And while Ted Neely doesn't look Jewish, I love his portrayal of Jesus. He has such a powerful, expressive, poignant face. Really touching.

I can see how the racial implications are problematic with the black Judas and the Native American Mary Magdeline, but Jesus also loved these characters more than the others, according to the movie, and they are well-rounded and empathetic. I think that's pretty good.

Sigh. I've worked on this post all freakin' day! I'm ready to post and get criticized, now. Hope you all had fun reading this.